Old Goat

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Posts by Old Goat

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  7

  A Historian's Rant

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i almost always post about watch tower history, and if you've read my previous comments you know i follow the truth history blog.

  dr. de vienne posted a long, explosive rant based on a blog comment.

  along with it (someone really set her off!

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  Old Goat

  I almost always post about watch tower history, and if you've read my previous comments you know I follow the truth history blog. Dr. de Vienne posted a long, explosive rant based on a blog comment. Along with it (Someone really set her off!) she's posted parts of their research you've not seen on the public blog. Give it a read. I'm interested in your thoughts too. I like this. She "calls a spade a spade" while making her points. You have no idea how much she reminds me of my youngest granddaughter.

  http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
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  21

  Where did Pastor Russell get his TRUTH?

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most jehovah's witnesses are aware there once lived a man named russell and he had something to do with the early years of their religion.. but, generally, interest in the early days is almost non-existent.

  after all, nobody was running around calling themselves jehovah's witnesses, so what difference does any of that really make?.

  russell and the origins of jw doctrines are, as a result of this total black out of curiousity, hidden and permanently obscured.. in fact, the only time charles taze russell is discussed is because some expose' by an apostate has raised a stink.. admitedly, most anti-jw books seek to dredge up scandals, lawsuits, accusations and failed predictions swirling around russell's ministry.. in my own opinion, none of that is half as interesting as the missing part of the equation: where from did pastor russell get his truth?.

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  Old Goat

  booze runs to canada are entirely possible. I don' t know that it happened, given the source for the claim. But it is certainly possible. I wonder how one would irrefutably prove that?
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  183

  Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://gilmermirror.com/bookmark/23272594/article-extreme%20shunning#.ufwjurllscm.facebook.

  extreme shunningthe gilmer mirror.

  its time to outlaw extreme shunning in modern society by: richard e. kelly .

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  Old Goat

  Public awareness? Do you really think anyone but the tabloids, anti-sect people and fringies care what Jehovah's Witnesses do? Only people with a similar purpose will care. This is an oh hum issue for most outsiders. Isn't the best "cure" to move on? Or to stay marginally connected. I don't fault either decision.
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  183

  Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://gilmermirror.com/bookmark/23272594/article-extreme%20shunning#.ufwjurllscm.facebook.

  extreme shunningthe gilmer mirror.

  its time to outlaw extreme shunning in modern society by: richard e. kelly .

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  Old Goat

  The courts will not see, and have not seen shunning, as torture. You have the same constitutional right of free association as the Witnesses do. You have the right to leave. They have the right to avoid you like the plague. While it is their religious doctrine, it is also an individual right. Each Witness makes their own decision on what ever basis they choose. You may not like it, but it is their right. There are two constitutional issues here: Freedom of Religious conscience; freedom of association.

  By ranting and complaining, you show everyone that it works. You are punished. Why give them the joy? There is always the return smack: "Dear Mom and Dad. You know I love you endlessly. But I cannot associate with you as long as you follow the path of sin. Unkindness to family members is a sin. I pray that you repent."

  Another issue is this: Some of the behaviors that lead to disfellowshiping among JW's are horrendous, nasty, nauseating. Who in their right mind would associate with someone like that? No every "case" deserves contiuned family contact. I feel that way about my brother, now long gone out of the "truth." Good judgement - not religion - tells me that any contact with him would be like stepping in vomit. And you want a law that says I must be kind to a man who is a sore on the butt of humanity?

  And how would such a law be enforced. Suppose a law forbids organized shunning. Do you think it won't continue? All one has to assert is their personal freedom of association. "But, your honor, I don't want to associate with my uncle. He's a sexual devient who [insert act here]. I don't want my children or myself subjected to his life choices."
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  183

  Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://gilmermirror.com/bookmark/23272594/article-extreme%20shunning#.ufwjurllscm.facebook.

  extreme shunningthe gilmer mirror.

  its time to outlaw extreme shunning in modern society by: richard e. kelly .

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  Old Goat

  LongHair,

  The age of majority in most states is 18.
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  17

  Anyone threaten a lawsuit against elder committee that DF you.

  by jam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you threaten the commmitee with a lawsuit, each of you.

  will hear from my lawyer if you df me today.

  all you have, every penny.

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  Old Goat

  Years ago I was on the other side of this. A disfellowshiped person threatened to sue. They got themselves a lawyer who wrote a strongly-worded letter. We turned it over to the Watch Tower Society's legal department. They wrote back to the hick lawyer sending him a huge pile of prior court decisions and essentially said, "Go ahead, sue. See what happens." They dropped the case. Implicit in this was the threat of court costs and lawyer fees being assessed against the complainant.

  Suing on this basis does not work. It is a waste of time. It amounts to a huge temper tantrum without any significant meaning.
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  183

  Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://gilmermirror.com/bookmark/23272594/article-extreme%20shunning#.ufwjurllscm.facebook.

  extreme shunningthe gilmer mirror.

  its time to outlaw extreme shunning in modern society by: richard e. kelly .

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  Old Goat

  Americans have a constitutional right to form or reject associations. The suggestion that the state curtail this right is abhorrent. I don't want to be compelled to be anyone's "friend." If families shun us, it is their choice, even if the choice is made based on religious belief we may see as stupid. My brother is an idiot. He's made life choices I reject. Even if I were not still nominally a Witness, I'd "shun" him. Do I want a law in place that compels me to talk to a vulgar, womanizing, drug-taking, former Ministerial Servant? Not very likely.
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  39

  AVOIDING A SHEPHERDING CALL: Suggestions pls

  by grumblecakes in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yup got a voice mail bright and early this morning "grumblecakes, we would like to schedule a shepherding call".. how do i get outta this?.

  .

  thanks!!

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  Old Goat

  There is no obligation to meet with them on any account. A simple, not now will do. Tell them you'll call them if you want a visit.
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  19

  Watchtower leaders imprisoned! Details prove fascinating...

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!

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  Old Goat

  At back of the trial was clergy opposition. The American Protective League formed to oppose "subversion". In Chicago a Polish Catholic woman took a Watch Tower publication to her bishop who promptly wrote to the US AG. The APL, largely catholic in that part of the country, added its voice. The ban in Canada and in the US was payback time on the part of the clergy.

  The Canadian archives on this are open. You can read the letters from clergy. The US archives are nominally open, but it is impossible to get any meaningful material from them. You can, however, find articles in various contemporary magazines and newspapers where the clergy vent and exult. Read Preacher's Present Arms. It will give you a starting point here.
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  21

  Where did Pastor Russell get his TRUTH?

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most jehovah's witnesses are aware there once lived a man named russell and he had something to do with the early years of their religion.. but, generally, interest in the early days is almost non-existent.

  after all, nobody was running around calling themselves jehovah's witnesses, so what difference does any of that really make?.

  russell and the origins of jw doctrines are, as a result of this total black out of curiousity, hidden and permanently obscured.. in fact, the only time charles taze russell is discussed is because some expose' by an apostate has raised a stink.. admitedly, most anti-jw books seek to dredge up scandals, lawsuits, accusations and failed predictions swirling around russell's ministry.. in my own opinion, none of that is half as interesting as the missing part of the equation: where from did pastor russell get his truth?.

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  Old Goat

  Rutherford had been dead not quite four years the first time I walked into a Kingdom Hall. Old Timers (I guess I'm one of those now) saw him as a bulwark against the world. "Bible Students" hated him, and still do. When I was new to Witnesses, I read everything he wrote. He was quite a character. I dont' believe many of the things said about him. That photo that floats around of him and a group drinking makes me laugh. I'm old enough to remember rootbeer dispencers. That's what's in the photo and that's what their drinking.

  Other issues? I just don't know. A good place to start is to doubt everything.